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Medieval Lady Maid Riding Stock by LuDa-Stock Medieval Lady Maid Riding Stock by LuDa-Stock
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:bulletred::bulletred::bulletred::bulletred::bulletred:Important: This is human stock. Please be respectful with the people shown on the pictures. Do not use our human stock in a defamatory way (e.g. pornograhic, extremely violent or erotic artworks). :bulletred::bulletred::bulletred::bulletred::bulletred:

Location: Freienfels, Middle Germany

Terms of Use: Free for uncommercial use as references and photomanips, free for print sales inside of dA, free for SIM games outside of dA.
Photo must be edited somehow! Don't repost the original picture anywhere and claim it as your photo! Credit us!
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Seen on the Picture: Burgfestspiele Mittelaltermarkt Freienfels 2014/Medieval Festival at the Castle of Freienfels (Germany)

Tags: Stock Photo LuDa Reference Medieval Freienfels Palomino Quarter Horse Knight Medieval Clothes Garment Robe  Landsknecht Court Lady Middle Class Maid Maiden Riding Tournament Joust Historic Dark Age Jousting Lists 14th 15th Century Walk
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Daily Deviation

Given 2014-06-07
[Stock & Resources]  This image is crisp and clear. It will make a wonderful fantasy photomanipulation element or reference image. The even lighting will make it easy for artists to adjust and change to their own lighting preferences.  Medieval Lady Maid Riding Stock by LuDa-Stock ( Suggested by dierat and Featured by CelticStrm-Stock )
:iconclumsydemonwithfire:
clumsydemonwithfire Featured By Owner Jun 11, 2014   General Artist
This is a great reference! Thank you so much for sharing~ :D
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:iconxxwhitewolffirexx:
XxwhitewolffirexX Featured By Owner Jun 8, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
she's very pretty too me in a simplistic way but i'm sorry a maiden from the 14th to 15th century very rarely rode like a man especially wearing a dress. It wasn't consider proper nor lady-like.  
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:iconluda-stock:
LuDa-Stock Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
I know of no evidence, that it was not proper. Though you are right not "lady like" in a sense of not so common :) This picture shows the warm up before a joust though, so it is of course not historically 100%
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:iconbefram:
Befram Featured By Owner Jun 8, 2014
Once saw some medieval knights jousting with their weapons on fire, well mostly everything on fire, at night. It was freaking awesome, as I hope that joust was:)
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:icontigabelle:
tigabelle Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2014
Congrats on the Daily  Deviation! :huggle:
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:iconthegalleryofeve:
TheGalleryOfEve Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Congratulations on your well-deserved DD!!! :iconflyingheartsplz::iconlainloveplz::iconflyingheartsplz: :clap::clap::clap:
I’m very happy for you!!! :iconloveloveplz: :tighthug:
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:icontheskandranon:
TheSkandranon Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2014  Hobbyist Writer
Very nice, the only thing I find wrong with it is that if it was really midieval, then she would be riding side saddle
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:icondripoint:
DriPoint Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2014   Digital Artist
Fantastic stock - well deserved DD
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:iconcyklopi:
Cyklopi Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2014
very good photo, but I don't think that woman ride horses like this in middle ages, I think that they used different saddle and different riding position, but I could be wrong
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:iconluda-stock:
LuDa-Stock Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
jeannedepompadour.blogspot.de/… You might find this helpful.

I have found some pictures of women (one seems to be a duchess or queen, she is wearing a crown) riding like this (about 15th century). They rode astride like men, but the dress is arranged like it has been wrapped around the legs, so no leg is actually visible and it is all fabric. Later equestrian portraits show wealth by having lots and lots of fabric dress draped on the horses back, showing off that you have enough money to ruin fabrics by putting them over a "dirty" horse.

I know what you mean by the term "side saddle" though and found other pictures of women riding in a side saddle, that was more of a chair or a cushion. Their they apparently have both legs hanging to one side of the horse. As far as my knowledge goes you start in roman times, where women used to be carried around in litters. In medieval times women still mostly drove using carriages, if they rode, they sat on a cushion. Around 1400s you have the first "side saddles" coming into fashion. Either a cushion or a chair with a plattform to put your feet on (otherwise you will be falling down) like this one www.gutenberg.org/files/16681/… (From the Gutenberg Project, Illustration of the Baby Chatter Box www.gutenberg.org/files/16681/…. Which seem to have been invented long before already.

These statues of Roman Godess Epona say it all
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fil… commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fil… astride
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fil… commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fil… - Side Saddle

I am always careful to jump to conclusions concerning something being thought of "improper for a lady". I think that the side saddle was seen as more elegant and was more usable with the usual long dresses. But the actual usage could probably have been depending on the situation.
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:iconcyklopi:
Cyklopi Featured By Owner Jun 13, 2014
Well, that was very interesting read! Thank you, it always good to learn something new. :)
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:iconauroralalune:
AuroraLaLune Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
nice, but i need to ask if you can please put in some 'side saddle' riding ones. Truth be told, side saddle or carriage was more common when a lady was wearing something like that and not 'riding cloths' of the time. It was not considered 'proper' for a lady. I have been looking for such for a reference for a painting for ages. Nowadays i think they call it riding or sitting 'side saddle'. Back then, you had to be able to ride side saddle even at a fast pace. Anything else, was improper.
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:iconluda-stock:
LuDa-Stock Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
jeannedepompadour.blogspot.de/… You might find this helpful.

I have found some pictures of women (one seems to be a duchess or queen, she is wearing a crown) riding like this (about 15th century). They rode astride like men, but the dress is arranged like it has been wrapped around the legs, so no leg is actually visible and it is all fabric. Later equestrian portraits show wealth by having lots and lots of fabric dress draped on the horses back, showing off that you have enough money to ruin fabrics by putting them over a "dirty" horse.

I know what you mean by the term "side saddle" though and found other pictures of women riding in a side saddle, that was more of a chair or a cushion. Their they apparently have both legs hanging to one side of the horse. As far as my knowledge goes you start in roman times, where women used to be carried around in litters. In medieval times women still mostly drove using carriages, if they rode, they sat on a cushion. Around 1400s you have the first "side saddles" coming into fashion. Either a cushion or a chair with a plattform to put your feet on (otherwise you will be falling down) like this one www.gutenberg.org/files/16681/… (From the Gutenberg Project, Illustration of the Baby Chatter Box www.gutenberg.org/files/16681/…. Which seem to have been invented long before already.

These statues of Roman Godess Epona say it all
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fil… commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fil… astride
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fil… commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fil… - Side Saddle

I think that the side saddle was seen as more elegant and was more usable with the usual long dresses and probably considerd noble. You see them more often on the pictures and paintings compared to ladies riding astride. The actual usage could have been depending on the situation. For the use as a "ladies horse" there have been horses especially chosen and trained for comfortable paces like the Tölt en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palfrey. They were bred for this, because you can't ride at a fast pace hanging across the horses back like that.

I am always careful to jump to conclusions concerning something being thought of "improper for a lady". I know of no evidence supporting that riding astride might have been improper. I rather think of it like with men's and women's bycicles.
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:iconauroralalune:
AuroraLaLune Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
lol, i am a well of... oh what did sue call it once. 'a well of useless information'. More because i find it interesting and like to learn, even if it isn't always useful for day to day life. even if it is something i never have a reason to apply the knowledge for.

Oh but that one was quite pretty. Those paintings are quite old. Did you read the dates or on some estimated dates or where they were found and in what time they were found? It is quite fascinating how art has evolved isn't it? The styles and techniques people once used and were back then, quite popular. but eh no. they didn't ride astride like men. Also, they didn't gather their dresses to one side, they gathers them up front in their laps when they rode astride. They were riding side saddle. please do research on the way people did what before you try that on me. I did say, even the ones that rode side saddle didn't ride side saddle all the time.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_i… this has some interesting tid bits though as always, take wikapedia with a grain of salt. they are a good starting point for research but remember anyone can post anything to Wikipedia true or not.

It says MOST women rode astride, it is mistaken. That's Wikipedia for you. MOST women didn't give two shits which way they were riding just like everyone else who wasn't rich out the ass or making a statement. meaning they switched as did men switch, on long trips and whatnot, the only ones who cared were the rich or those riding too quickly to trust riding side saddle, in which case even the rich would often ride astride unless they were just 'that' skilled with balance, still it was easy to fall and many people did die when they got overly arrogant and tried it. 'fell off a horse' was a rather common way for someone to  have died. I will have to go get the information from an actual book and make sure i properly cite where i found the information. blegh. this is going to be such a pain in the ass. I had to do a report on this in school as part of a history class so at least i have a vague idea of where to look. it has been a long time. Can you please send me a pm reminder so i can star is and take a note to make the trip up to the library in the next week or so? Once i send this comment your comment won't show up and neither will mind, unless i manually find it which would take longer than i admit, i am willing to spend searching for it. Last time i tried something like that i spent an hour sifting through everything i could and ya know... turns out their is no easy way on dev to reach this kind of stuff, so... i ask that you send me a pm reminding me. While it was common for the lower and middle classes to ride astride for business, they had to wear special cloths.

I thought you might find the link interesting for another reason, it has why saddles were invented to begin with. To protect the horse from the weight of the human.

Never go with just the internet and especially never rely heavily on Wikipedia. some people go on Wikipedia to alter things just to mess with people, or to erase facts they don't like. For instance, much about wiccan history and where it came from etc etc etc... was erased off of Wikipedia and it took many petitions from the wiccan community along with a lot of time, to catch the guy and even then not much more can be done accept to sue him and work harder to make sure sites like Wikipedia aren't allowing someone to just go in and erase hundreds of informational pages related to pagan paths and with even the vaguest references to Wicca. The irony is, it is more common for an act like this against another faith to be perpetrated by a christian, than to a christian by any faith. This was a large scale information wipe.

Then adding in all of the censoring and crap that goes on online... honestly never use the internet as your sole source of information. I can't tell you how many times i couldn't find information i needed, online, but could find it in books at the library. Yes, even things you think would be 'important enough' to be online.

never underestimate the power of a book and the ability to read it.

Now let me be frank with you. I didn't say every culture in the world rode horses the same way at any point in time. Like i said before, native americans tode bare back more often than not. As far as i know, they didn't do side saddle, ever. I can name several cultures who never used riding side saddle, ever. always astride. I also made it perfectly clear i was never talking about all classes in the societies that DID have females riding side satle. hell, i can even name a few where men sometimes did so as well(and some of these included donkeys as their rides instead of horses or along with horses). I know for a fact, i said it was specific to a certain class of people. But i will be frank. Think European culture. Mideastern culture was both men and women and it honestly didn't matter what your gender was. If you wanna play 'mince every little fact until i am right' you won't win. This isn't about being right, so don't make it so. In roman culture it was much the same. Saddles were created to protect the horse, however riding sideways was easier on the human body, provided you didn't fall off. Pregnant women didn't ride astride, for good reason. Men who rode astride often found discomfort. why? well... you have a horses spine smashing into your nuts while it runs and you see how it feels. Only in European culture was it ever made a gender specific thing, and only in the higher 'classes'. Lower and middle class women worked along side the men. Only the rich could afford to make stupid rules up about who had business doing what and who was stronger than who and blah blah blah.

I am not looking for the perfect reference for the middle ages. it was merely a suggestion to do something a little more accurate to that, as many people like to paint the noble women though i have yet to see someone draw a regular old working woman from back then, only the 'maid Mariam's' of the day. only the damsels who were basically sitting pretty. the rich had so many petticoats and layers they couldn't stay on a horse in them, so they had to dress down and women had special riding cloths for anything that was NOT side saddle riding. men just changed pants and shoes to something that wouldn't get caught in the saddle or tangled in the horses mane. Despite this, it was still extremely common for middle class and lower class women to ride side saddle by choice, without the special saddle or having made the special saddle themselves. it was common for anyone to do so before their was a saddle at all. it hirts women just as much as men to ride astride bareback, and back then bareback was commonplace. Even for the rich. Putting blankets on the horses actually caused more danger of falling off and the blanket slipping so most people didn't even do that, only nobles were that arrogant and full of themselves.

Anyway, it is a good policy to put down the internet and pick up a book every once in awhile. Their is a lot of information in books. a lot more than the internet has that is for sure. A pitty their are so many banned books, and banned for the stupidest and silliest reasons... still more information than the internet is available in books. That should be enough to make anyone think.

Yes, i was the nerdy girl who always had her head in a book and in the clouds painting or drawing something. When i became homeless at eighteen, i took as many books as i could with me. they are more valuable than people give them credit for. contrary to popular belief, not everything can be found on the internet.

I am well aware about the tolt and the reasons for the side saddle. I already told you previously, in a previous comment the one you were responding to to begin with, that it was a thing among nobles for the most part. That in of itself should tell you enough.

Next time you link things i need to ask that you not rely on Wikipedia as a crutch. It is at best, unreliable. A goo starting point but it honestly ends their. If i wasn't sure at least 80 percent of what was in the piece i linked was true, i would not have linked it at all, and even then i told you to take Wikipedia with a grain of salt.

Today, mends and women's bicycles have little difference if any. They used to have a large difference, and that was so a woman could ride wearing a dress or a skirt if she so chose, without showing her privates/underwear to the world. Sometimes i wish whoever decided that was 'too different' should have jumped off a cliff. it is actually quite refreshing to ride a bike in a skirt, i used to have my grandmothers old bike and i liked it personally. it should be personal choice, however today's bikes do not have a skirt guard. it was so skirts didn't get caught in the mechanism, and so that you didn't accidentally flash the world riding your bike. It had a practical reason, and was not comparable with the way people chose to differentiate riding horses. The only reason men in European culture didn't do so as a general rule was because it was seen as giving in to weakness. Basically, it was a stupid macho thing. Over time it warped so that riding side saddle was seen as purely the 'womanly thing to do', and more specifically common in nobles though i will say this, for longer journeys where you were moving slowly... side saddle or switching between side saddle and astride would have been easier on the human body, and was common practice among commoners and the like.

It is sort of like how people today shift how they sit on excessively uncomfortable furniture. only a horse moves and is a living animal... and well. the whole shit about this, was more for 'public' and middle class having to care what people thought, came about later. During the time frame this was begun, it was an upper class thing and even later it was primarily an upper class practice. Riding astride for long periods without switching was like saying 'i am macho, i am strong, hear me roar'... basically it hurt and took a lot of discipline not to say it hurt or give in to easing the discomfort. -_- these people rode horses across the countryside, into battle... they used horses for everything. Riding side sadle as a noble, all the time, was a way of saying they were superior in some way to lower classes. only the upper classes cared 'which way' to ride a horse beyond that it didn't hurt the horse and didn't hurt the human riding the horse. for the rich, it was for show. plain and simple. If i need to state more facts than are relevant and go to the library to prove my information is more reliable than Wikipedia, i will do so. It is sort of insulting to have people use Wikipedia so much to say 'look, this is true i found it on Wikipedia'. Every time someone does that i feel insulted and a little irritated. Like the person talking to me can't be bothered with actually doing reliable research before they talk but i am supposed to accept whatever Wikipedia says. everyone knows by now, Wikipedia is an open edit site. anyone can edit the information, add, erase... blah blah blah. A book is more reliable though Wikipedia is a good starting point, it at least gives you an idea where to start in researching things.

Now, back to that first link. It was common for a lady to have her dress int he following ways on a horse. -pulled up in her lap with the rest off to one or both sides(however off to one side was a dangerous play and it would have ended up flashing a woman to the world because of the way the clothing would pull as the ride commenced, draped over the ass of the horse and around them, evenly as possible, gathered up in the ladies lap so as to not flash anyone with something they should not see, keeping the dress covering her legs and merely gathering the rest in her lap with one hand and riding with the other, though it wouldn't have been uncommon for a lady who didn't have excessive layers to just let it fly freely so long as it wasn't in danger of getting in the way. The way you had your dress on the horse was its own statement socially and for the rich ladies, that was what they had going for them, what people thought of them and who they got married off to.

Horses were a big part of European culture, and were again, used in every part of life outside the front door(or back door). horse were important.

Now if you will excuse me, i need to go to bed, where i can lay down and read without someone mincing facts after having only half listened to what i said to begin with and where i can make sure my cranky ass is staying personable instead of stating how i feel on a more negative standpoint, which i find offends people wreather it is meant to or not. Because if i say it, i will mean it, however... i will not mean the way it is taken and i know that. Better not to say it at all.\


Please have a blessed evening. 

-Luna
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:iconluda-stock:
LuDa-Stock Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
Besides the fact that you wrote A LOT, I think you might have misunderstood my writing (well possible due to the fact that English is not my native language) What you described is basically what I wrote. If it wasn't clear in the first place I am sorry, the information I have written in the previous post was taken from several BOOKS on riding history, history of riding attire and medieval tack. I linked back to wikipedia for a reference on the term Palfrey only as well as for the roman statues of Epona. I did not bother to read any Wikipedia article on this, I simply trusted you will judge the given information based on the knowledge you'd already proven and into your powers of observation.

The point was: women did ride astride, there is no evidence that it was thought "improper". Of course the majority of pictures show noble women riding "side saddle" for a reason.  Concerning this very image, it is thought to be usable for artists who exactly want to draw noble maiden fair on horse back. Who am I to judge that they chose this kind of sujet, this is stock for artists and not for a history book.

What I do not understand is your digression into the world of Wiccan culture and what has or hasn't been written about it. I seemed to have stirred up something without the intention to do so. Sorry for that.

I don't know what I shall PM you for?
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:iconauroralalune:
AuroraLaLune Featured By Owner Jun 13, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
... ok, so english is not your native language. ignore my outburst about being sick of repeating myself. i can deal with this. their is a way to deal with it. what is your native language so i can look it up and find better words to use that will better be understood? Some languages, even if the words translate, do not at the same time so alternative words and explanations are better used, because we come from two different cultures. 

For instance, i am trying to tell you that people rode that way before their were saddles, you are saying they did not. This is the words that are being used, the meanings and whatnot. Sometimes, it is best to find simplest terms and go from their.

It is just a cultural barrier, that i can deal with. :)

I now feel extremely bad for breaking down and snapping at you now. I apologize.

Not what hasn't been written, what has been erased on wikipedia. I was explaining. YOu don't need to be an expert and can erase things other write without proving they are wrong in any way. Nearly everything about my religion was erased off of wikipedia and a big court battle ensued with others of my path, wikipedia, as well as the person responsible, a Christian who was offended by our existence. nothing new, just... a reminder how wikipedia is not reliable as a source of information. It is a good starting point, to get an idea what you should look up, but some of it is true and some of it is not, and some of it is misconceptions, some of it is left out completely. It was an example of real events so you may better understand the nature of wikipedia and why it isn't good to rely on it as you have in these. 

Once we correspond, our conversation is not readily available to each-other, at least not on my end. lol i don't know if it works differently for you, never know anymore. the pm would basically be sitting in my inbox as a little reminder to go to the library and find a book on this so i can cite the pages and titles and prove to you, what i am telling you is true about people riding that way before the saddle existed, since you are so stuck on it being only after the side sadle was invented, that people rode side saddle, and do not seem to comprehend when i tell you, i wasn't talking about all women. only the 'nobles' who were anything But noble as far as its meaning for the integrity of a human being. They were called noble, as in upper class, more money than they knew what to do with type 'noble'. basically ancient politicians, bureaucrats and their families. To serve as a reminder so i can give you a properly cited and quoted text that you can look up and find because of the proper citation. 
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:iconluda-stock:
LuDa-Stock Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
Sorry, but you are pretty overwhelming with your flow of words. While I appreciate your motivation I do not think that this will lead to any further knowledge than I already have. I think you understand me wrong even though I explained it. But to see this conversation at the deviation is rather good, so people who look for this stock can judge for themselves if this is a relevant information for them.
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:iconauroralalune:
AuroraLaLune Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Perhaps yes, perhaps not. 

it is in many ways however i hope it will be helpful to others who see it. Not just for the art but also well... in America you deal with a lot of people who pretend instead of genuinely don't get something you are saying. You, seem to get some of it but the rest goes in one ear and out the other. You speak as if i never said it to begin with. Constantly. However, we come from two very different backgrounds and perhaps this will help others not only with art, but with learning to co exist with people of different backgrounds, to foster understanding between people. 

I deal with people on a daily basis who play stupid when in reality they know what you mean, they just like screwing with you and knocking you off kilter on purpose.We also have people who get a job speaking two languages but then they refuse to speak one of them, usually English, to get out of doing any actual work. So... people who do as you have done on purpose piss me off, people who do such things and create such barriers without meaning to, simply because they genuinely do not understand, not so much. Can't really hold that against someone, and i guess if i could that would make me a pretty horrid person anyway. I am sincere, even if people don't always like that. 

Anyway, some of the things we discussed art wise, i hope they help people out if they read it. I whole heartedly agree with you on that one. I too am glad this is here, to perhaps help others and maybe even spark their minds to come up with new ideas for their art as well. :) 

In the end i determined i could do it now, and do that sort of thing at a later date. I may still do another painting for my mother, but... the one i finished yesterday was originally just supposed to be just for practice. auroralalune.deviantart.com/ar… Like i said, it was just supposed to be practice and maybe some experimentation with some brushes... don't get me wrong i am still planning on doing the one where i will attempt to draw  my mother on a horse, even have plans on what sort of painting it will be besides the pose... fact of the matter is, despite what i know, my last attempt to draw someone on a horse at all was craptastic. lol in other words horrible. The practice drawing i was doing that sort of... morphed into a full blown painting isn't up to snuff to any standards as far as i am aware. I mean i am more than positive i missed some fine detailing on the horse, which was why it was practice to begin with. To get more familiar with painting a horse. I messed up a couple of times and had to fix it as was, because i was relying too much on the muscular diagram, instead of remembering how skin adds its own flair to the shape of the horse, and had to fix it. lol Should have seen the look on my face when i was like 'those are really knobby joints on the front legs... that doesn't look right' when i was drawing it. lol Since you seem to be around actual horses more than I have been, would you mind giving me a little constructive criticism on that? I may know history and cultures but... i have not seen a horse in person since i was a child. I just want to make sure i got it down and note what sort of things i need to keep in mind for mom's painting. Oh, and yeah, i put this little thing on the forehead that i know real horses don't have. lol

Honestly, i like your stock, which isn't just good for stock but for helping people study anatomy and for pose references for art as well, a reference point for a pose or position that maybe someone either hasn't seen or can't remember clearly enough to draw it without some sort of reference. Either way, if this string of our comments back and forth helps someone half as much as your stock does, i will be happy. :)
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:icondamselstock:
DamselStock Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
And is you search side-saddle in the stock galleries you'll get some decent results. These were my search results: www.deviantart.com/resources/s…
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:iconauroralalune:
AuroraLaLune Featured By Owner Jun 8, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
interesting. most of it is pics of actual saddles. lol like i said, most people don't really know what it is. thank you for the help though and the other one you linked directly was also helpful. I can easily get a take on the leg positioning and whatnot, even from under the dresses wore during these photos. The models are older and cannot however do much while riding side satle. i was surprised to see the one riding side satle in a run. It is harder when you have more weight, age, and dress on you like she did so i have to say, props to her. That takes remarkable talent. Their were plenty of ladies however who used to get up on side satle, swing up, swing down, either assisted or not. Much like how most people ride today. I am going to point out, their is no 'stock' of such things, and not a lot of it for women or men riding side satle. their is nothing i can find with someone draped over a horse either, which was not only done with transporting wounded during wars and whatnot, but also is still done when people are training a horse to carry the weight of a human and not freak out about the extra weight. in the case of the injured, someone would climb on behind them to hold the reigns and make sure the injured person didn't fall off. Conscious injured people were treated a little differently. i can imagine i know why, that can't be comfortable and horses are very sensitive to the moods and attitudes of their rider or anyone on them for that matter. beautiful creatures. I can see perhaps, a little of why my mother loved horses so much. let us also remember, satles have changed over the hundreds of years they have been in use, as well. It was not uncommon in the mideaval era's to ride bare back. it was not desirable to do so, but not uncommon. it was considered a luxury afforded to knights and nobles. native Americans often rode without anything at all between them and the horse. my mother used to describe how she would have loved to be able to ride without a saddle, to neither impede the horse nor be anything but one with the horse in that moment running in the wind. Like i said, my mother was in love with horses. Anyway, thank you for the references you have suggested. I would like to ask however, perhaps it might me something to consider in the future? to do a series on riding side saddle and include getting on or getting off the horses? being draped over? stuff like that? And no, i hadn't found those before. it goes to show, two heads are better than one. :)

-Luna
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:iconluda-stock:
LuDa-Stock Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
We could do some of the photos though, without having the actual original side saddles. Do you need them soon?
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:iconauroralalune:
AuroraLaLune Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I start this project months before i actually 'start' on it. It is a personal project with no deadline but the one i have set. the actual painting won't take half as long as the research for it. when it comes to the yearly painting in honor of my mother, i can be a bit of a perfectionist. The last time i painted a horse, i wasn't satisfied with it, could pick our every flaw... and well, i want to do better this time. No, i don't always do a horse to honor her, but this year i am going to. My personal deadline is august fourteenth. My mothers day of birth. I have a couple days over two months but would like to start preliminary rough sketches in the next month or so... hence why i am looking for a reference. yeah, i know i am being picky about it. But... she is my mom. She is gone, but never is she forgotten.
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:iconluda-stock:
LuDa-Stock Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
I understand your intention you have every right to be picky. We will look out for the proper reenactment stuff. Can't promise we will find it though, as most medieval ladies (like the one seen in the picture) actually doing warmups for the horses of the Jousting Tournaments. People rarely do "riding around historically correct casual women"
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:iconauroralalune:
AuroraLaLune Featured By Owner Jun 13, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
yeah, historically accurate is hard to find so i may have to do that without a lot of research and without someone doing something like that. Especially as the chances of someone doing it as it was done without a saddle, is not exactly something that i have yet to find, which is how they did it before their were saddles or side saddles. historically accurate clothing examples are also, hell to find. the paintings from back then leave out some fine detailing that is important for such things and googling anything from the middle ages at all, just gets me stuff from the Renaissance fair, basically peoples costumes, which are not historically accurate at all let alone for the time i wish to find it for. To find something wild, free, but still very much what is historically accurate. I honestly was too young to recall all the tiny details of my mother on that horse, the muscles and whatnot and how they tensed in what places and blah blah blah, not even the posture is completely clear as a memory. I was too young. Its sort of like remembering it enough for me to know what i need to for me but it ends their, having trouble visualizing it enough to put on paper and duplicate for someone else completely. Those are two different matters when it concerns memories. Have you ever remembered something you couldn't draw but you could remember it? sort of like a name on the tip of your tongue only the memory is simply not clear enough for you to translate into something for someone else. You can say what, but not how the muscles tensed and relaxed, where they were, the little things a child that age wasn't paying attention to because she just thought her mother was awesome and amazing and never though she would need to remember those tiny details, sort of thing. anyway, i have probably explained it enough to confuse you more than it clarifies at this point so... to put it simply, i was young and some of the small details i would look at today as an artist, i did not look at then as a child who did basic drawings compared to now. those are two different stages of life separated by many developmental stages etc etc etc... and sometimes if you go back far enough it is almost like translating another language to some extent, because of how different you are when you are so young, and how some things do not even translate into the adult mind. 

To clarify, i would love to find an accurate reference like that, both for the dress and because it would be invaluable to me as a reference, not only for the clothing but for the pose, the posture, all the fine details i didn't even realize existed as a little girl so i could not possibly zero in on them to perceive them to translate them from that memory to adult visualization. If i try, i will end up with a little child's drawing, i have tried it before with the past from when i was a little girl. Without some visual reference point for me to make sense of such as an adult, i will have to figure one out and basically create it, the problem being, their is no reference point on all of the Internet(at least from what i know of), for what i need. My mother used to dress in old clothing for photo's. She was never a full time model and my grandparents never paid her when they used her in their own photos which they made money off of themselves, though my mother did do some part time modeling before i was born and a little after. Anyway, Nothing on a horse, that was purely her passion, and kept separate. at least as far as i know. in any event she wasn't a big shot in the business, so finding anyone who might have her photographs would be hell, and family members obviously don't have them anymore, and what they have is limited. Their used to be a lot but grandmother burned them in a fit of rage, a great deal of them, and stole most of the ones i saved. Their are less than a handful of photos of my mother left. auroralalune.deviantart.com/ar… the images that are left, are usually photos of photos i took before my grandmother burned them. auroralalune.deviantart.com/ar… if you can't tell, this is the only one i have used in these, and only for my mom, not for money, not with prints enabled, just... to honor her memory. So, its hard enough to find something to go by even the smiplest of references and i am terrified i won't be able to draw her accurately, so i don't though i tried to paint that pose with the flower and all, with water colors when i was like nine or ten. ... 
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:icondamselstock:
DamselStock Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
Here is a side-saddle riding stock photo: fav.me/d4b9wg3
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:iconluda-stock:
LuDa-Stock Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
This is the modern side saddle. It was invented around the 1840s.
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:iconauroralalune:
AuroraLaLune Featured By Owner Jun 8, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
thank you
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:iconluda-stock:
LuDa-Stock Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
Though the actual pose is usable XD of course
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:iconluda-stock:
LuDa-Stock Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
Those are MODERN side saddles. Invented around the 1840s. In contrast to riding astride, those saddles were actually not existent during the middle ages.
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:iconauroralalune:
AuroraLaLune Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
it was called riding like a lady. the terms 'astride' and 'side sattle' were invented later. it is still refereed to as 'riding side satle' without a special satle. My mother loved horses and i never once saw her done a satle any different than any other on the rare times we went horseback riding. She still sometimes rode side saddle, on a regular saddle(which is from what i know much easier than what they had to work with way back-it was an act of balance and of trust). You forget so much of history relying on the information that they were 'invented' then. Computers were invented before i or even my mother was ever born. They were not released for general use until i was in puberty. I found out from my grandfather they used computers when he was in the service. They were big, very much so... but... still. Do not rely on when something was invented for your facts about what people did. It was invented because it is easy to fall off and hurt yourself, because some lady with too many petticoats and too much time riding in a coach instead of on a horse complained, un used to it. Just because a special sadle wasn't 'invented' doesn't mean people didn't ride like that. I can even tell you why they did so, what it meant before it was made into an expectation of society which was long before the special saddle was ever invented. I wasn't looking for a saddle. i was looking for a woman riding on a horse 'side saddle'. I was planning my yearly painting for my mother. She is long dead, died when i was eight. Like i said, she loved horses. her favorite movies were about horses. I only have a copy of 'black beauty' because when i was a little girl i remember watching it with her. My mother could ride astride or sidesaddle with skill i will never have, especially as i get terrified that far off the ground on top of an animal whose strength i must rely on. I know full well, i am more afraid to rely on the horse than of the height.  My mother loved horses and i once saw her ride without a saddle at all, which takes skill and your calves have to be up to holding on so you can stop yourself from bouncing and hurting yourself. it is a skill few ever have, because it is a dangerous thing to do alone. once you fall off, that is it. if the horse tramples you, well... anyway, my mom said it was best to try short and slow, i used to be the kid with a million questions. My mother was patient and answered them no matter how many i asked, and remembering i got pretty ridiculous. In all fairness, i never saw my mother ride side saddle bareback. to my knowledge, to ride side saddle you need something even if it is only a rope with a foothold tied into it, to steady yourself on. it is very easy to fall, knock the horse over getting down if the horse is not used to it, etc etc etc. Well, OK not easy but... a possibility i was well aware of. I have only been on a horse once in my entire life. And i was terrified. I was scared shitless the horse would take off with me on it. I remember my mother told me, horses are powerful creatures to be free and to ride them means we must trust them as they trust us, to ask no more than is reasonable to ask and they in turn will respect us and not act out in large or small ways making them harder to handle. Horses were meant to run wild and free, so respect that strength, don't fear it, but respect it and the horse may very well recognize that same spirit in you. I was about seven. Anyway... we made a promise to go once a year after that, if not more if we could. mom, was a special woman. I will say this, be very careful and if you ever try riding bareback do so only with the guidance of someone who knows what they are doing or at least, with someone nearby and a well seasoned riding horse who won't flip out when you try something you have never done before. usually ex trick riding horses are good for that though its good to get in sync with them first. Just a little bit of my mothers wisdom for you. I am looking for a reference and am picky about the reference. Basically. My mother has been dead since i was eight years old. I wish to honor her and honoring what she loved, is a way of honoring her as she loved them with all her heart. I think the only thing she loved more, was me and my little brother and our baby sister. I am not so sure the actual pose IS still usable. I am looking for a very specific sort of side saddle pose. My mother was a navy veteran but before she had been in the navy she was a dance skater. I don't know if you know this but that takes a lot of leg strength, adaptability and is a fairly dangerous sport if you do something wrong. their are several maneuvers that if your partner drops you, it is instant death. My mother skated both solo and partner, and won many competitions. I got to see an old video of her once, skating. She started out in roller skating competitions and went to ice skating from their. ironically ice skating is easy when you start out in roller skates, not roller blades... roller skates. they are two different kinds of wheeled skates. anyway, she had leg and back strength to spare and knew well what she could and could not expect from a horse. Anyway, that is why i am looking for a reference in the first place. As of this time, i am looking for something that specifies use of a regular saddle. truth be told, i wasn't even aware people still used those special made saddles. back when they were invented, they were quite dangerous for the horse and for the human.
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:iconluda-stock:
LuDa-Stock Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
Okay to clarify. Side saddle as a saddle making it possible to sit on a horse having both legs on one side. Two forms were common, the chair like one with the planchette (to put your feet on, so you sit better) later you have some sort of side saddles, which closely resemble the modern one in "looks" so the legs are not hanging down on one side like in a 90 degree angle, but they stay like in a walking pose. On equestrian portraits you can see both forms of sidesaddle were used. The one you find now, with the >two horns< is different because the seat is different and the position of the bended knee. That's why I pointed out to be careful using the side saddle for a picture where you have a medieval maid riding, because this kind of side saddle came into fashion in the middle of the 19th century. Useless information ;)


Sounds like a brave and noble woman, who should never be forgotten!
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:iconauroralalune:
AuroraLaLune Featured By Owner Jun 13, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
To be clear, people sat sideways on a horse BEFORE special saddles and can do them without them even today, it is simply not as safe to do so. -.- do not patronize me and continue speaking in ignorance about something i can prove you are wrong about but you cannot prove you are right about. At this point, its irritating beyond vocalization. 

The rest of what you said was correct, just as i have been saying over and fucking over again(i hate repeating myself and the fact i have had to do so when you are not either a-special needs, a child, or otherwise impaired unless you are drunk or on drugs and i don't know it... i am tired of repeating the same shit over and over and it going in one ear and out the other. In a situation i don't actually have to deal with it and cannot rationalize why you insist  acting like a goddamned typical person who works in a government funded job such as mental health, cps, des... blah blah blah. only paying attention to the things you LIKE, and not the thing you don't like, denying anything you don't LIKE is a fact, is part of history. For the love of all that is holy, if you want to be technical, people have ridden sidesaddle since A.-fucking-D. Since AD. As o previously walked through it with you, it is just as hard on the horse as it is on the person and vise versa, so people changed positions. and like i said before, it wasn't just horses, donkeys as well and getting technical, originally we weren't talking about the world. hell, you ignored i was talking about rich women in Europe. It was an act of balance, as as superfluous as the way my grandmother used to make me walk with books on my head at home several hours a day trying to force my posture to improve even though i have scoliosis. 

I know, and i also know, riding side saddle without a saddle, you do something similar. you balance and bend one knee over the horses neck area, much like you would sitting the same way on a sofa that can hold your wight, something i did as a child and can't do now at least not without being too heavy for this old thing, which is why i won't try it, its too old to handle a full grown woman, hell, i wouldn't let a  child sit on the back of this thing.  If you can balane sitting in a position, you can rid a horse in that position so long as you can maintaining the balance to do so without falling off. 

Your misconception being that people CAN'T ride a horse without a special saddle and that they didn't before they were made. Hun, much like plug covers, a side saddle wasn't invented at random, it was invented for safety of rider and horse, to make it easier to anchor yourself down and be balanced. You can still ride that way without a saddle period(though i would say i don't recommend it and would avoid it unless you are attached to something that can catch you, most people can't ever hope to do so, and between the horses and the people... i would say at least stick with a saddle to hold onto. Have you never seen someone toss one leg up bent over like that? Even men do it to this day when on long horseback rides. The grab that center piece that sticks up which i can't remember the name of for the life of me right at the moment, and use that to keep balance. Any saddle that puts you in a 'chair' with legs dangling over the side freely, is unstable in design and can go horribly wrong nearly as easily as using no saddle at all. Worse when it does in many cases, causing more damage to the horse than to the human rider unless-said rider gets trampled. It can easily slip over, no matter how well you tie it, because it has no way to center your body weight. Only very light people can do it at all with any 'safety' though i imaging some people probably try it for shits and giggles. -.- i SAID PEOPLE RODE THAT WAY WITHOUT A SADDLE BECAUSE THEIR WERE EVER SPECIAL SADDLES, I NEVER SAID IT WAS SAFE FOR THEM TO DO SO, IN FACT I TOLD YOU POINT BLANK THEIR WERE SO MANY WAYS IT COULD GO WRONG! Why the hell is it so hard for you to conceive that people rode side saddle, without a freaking saddle. My mom showed me once, that the best way to do it without a saddle is barefoot but even then its still very unstable, you can fall at any time and need a horse that won't freak out, to even try it for a moment, even just standing or a slow walk. This argument is like the one i got into a couple years ago where this woman was convinced marriage didn't exist before Christianity, in any form and people just went around fucking each-other like rabbits with no human morals or standards. They didn't, and marriage existed before Christianity, even before Judaism as a way to bind people in love and in commitment to love, as a way to announce that love to others. I feel about the same i did then, like i am talking to a brick wall about something you can't accept no matter how many facts i toss out for you, to make it easier on you. UGH! The saddle was invented because people rode horses and it was hard on both person and horse. Side saddles were invented to make riding a certain way, safer, because people had been doing it a long freaking time but only the Europeans were daft enough to try it in something they could trip on. -.- And might i add, rome was part of what we now call Europe, in what is now Italy, just in case you want to know. 
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:iconamber-riptide:
Amber-Riptide Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Nice!
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:icongph-artist:
gph-artist Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2014  Professional Traditional Artist
Great stock. Wonderful colors.
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:iconwolfhowl127:
Wolfhowl127 Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
So cool!
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:iconcosmisia:
Cosmisia Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
Congrats on DD it's a lovely shot!
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:iconthegeforce:
thegeforce Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
congrats on the DD!
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